Blinksi

Discussion in '3.0v2' started by Blinksi, Jan 20, 2018.

  1. Blinksi

    Blinksi

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    This update is definitely something this server needs and it brings up a lot of good points, so I'm just going to go through some of the changes real quick and give a bit of feedback.

    Sponges
    • Even though I am also guilty of placing sponges all over the map for no reason, I love this idea. The only thing I'd change would be the timer, from 8-10 hours to 5-6 hours because I think if you restrict the limit of sponges to much it will cause the opposite effect, with people not even being able to protect their basic builds.
    As someone who loves building big farms, a huge base as well as a big shop I could see the current timer suggestion being a bit of a problem.
    • Another option for earning sponge space could also be minigames. At a certain rank, you would get 1+ extra sponge space every game you or your team wins.

    Towns
    I've gone through 3 towns now and after witnessing all go through the same thing, I actually wouldn't mind them being removed at this point.
    • What I was thinking was maybe the server could have 1 official server ran town for those who would still like to live in one for a small tax fee. Maybe you could even find a way to incorporate it into the survival server spawn.

    Economy
    • First of all, Love love love the global economy idea.
    • I think the 45 coins per minute limit is totally fine and it basically means the end to those "30+ spawner" grinders (so less work for the shop owners).
    Shops
    So this is the topic I'm probably the most conflicted about.
    • I think the shop chest monthly fee is great. Big shops get charged more, little shops get charged less, everyone's happy.
    • So the main argument for setting up minimum prices is that shops are basically to competitive with each other, so players are able to buy everything way to cheap and thus get bored. But I think you already solve this problem partly by setting the mob cap at 45 coins per minute. I also think minimum prices would cause more problems than they would solve, mainly for smaller shops.

      So let's say I'm a small shop owner and I actually want to make some money from my shop. So what I could do is specialize my shops (for example enchanted books or colored blocks) and only sell a specific group of items. By selling a narrow assortment of items I would only need to focus on supplying a small group of items and thus would be able to provide them cheaper than a big shop. All this becomes impossible with a minimum price, so not only can't I now compete with a wide assortment of items and shop portal location, but I can't even be competitive with pricing anymore.

      The second problem I see with this is shops would become way to sterile in terms of pricing. Everyone would price their items the lowest they could so prices would basically become fixed. And it would take away most of the charm and fun of shops with it.
    • Love the GSI idea, nothing to add here.
    Additional suggestions
    I would also like to use this opportunity to suggest some new server vote options. I think that ever since the third voting option got removed from the site the influx of new players has declined.
    The player base at this moment mostly consists of older players and I think you can definitely agree that the server needs a breath of fresh air. I think it would be great if we had at least 4 voting options avalible to us.


    Feel free to add your opinions and suggestions in the comments;)
    -Blinksi
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2018
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  2. GiantNuker

    GiantNuker

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    All good ideas, mabe you could apply to shop staff to sell certain items at lower prices?(if it's too much work, tell me)
     
  3. PandaChristina

    PandaChristina Moderator

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    To start, I absolutely love this post and this is the type of feedback I was excited to read.

    Sponges:
    • I understand how you were feeling with this idea, and we did take some time to stop and think how much time we really should make the timer, as we started at 24 hours. I think this is something we can take more of a look at once we try it out first, as we haven't yet gotten too much of a feel how 8 hours for a sponge is.
    Towns:
    • Maybe this could be possible, considering staff would be able to create it much easier than a player could. Though, we would need people who are willing to run this "server" town, and of course enough interest in people participating in the town. I don't think this will be too much of a problem though, considering towns will still be possible within sponges, just without the toxic environment and the money sync.
    Shops:
    • I can see where you're coming from by thinking that the minimum pricing will take a lot of the fun out of things, which is partly true. Though, to get away from that and make your shop known, you're going to have to put a lot more work into it than you normally would, including appearance, variety in items, and a huge part of it is reliability. If a player never stocks their shop or never has lots of items in their chest, what's the point in being a consistent shopper? I'm really hoping people realize this, and the shops in 3.0v2 are nicer than they've ever been.


     
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  4. GiantNuker

    GiantNuker

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    Still, if someone asked to specieaperalize in something, which they could sell cheaper, mae that would work? I'm thinking they could ask to specialize in one thing? Also a key point for shop owners, i think is to organize thier shop. Make it easy to navigate, and make it(as you said) look nice.
     
  5. PandaChristina

    PandaChristina Moderator

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    That's something to consider! Though it would probably have to be the same price if not very close. Also, we would have a hard time keeping track of people who want to specialize their shop, as they can rebuild and add different items without anyone even noticing, so that would be a hassle.
     
  6. Blinksi

    Blinksi

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    First off, thank you for your reply.
    Sponges
    Yes I guess we'll just have to see how it works. I just think it's important to keep in mind that we're trying to prevent people from spamming sponges not make it hard to protect what you actually built (so there's definitely a balance that needs to be hit between the two).
    Towns
    I just thought this would be a really cool idea, but it would definitely require some people to run it. But it'd be fun if the next spawn would be like a big medieval town (maybe with a castle) and then it just slowly branches into player built builds (like a spawn that just keeps expanding)
    Shops
    I still think this would make it even more impossible for smaller shops to operate. I think a sale tax would be a much better solution here.
    For example for every item sold through the chest shop player would get 75% of the profit and the other 25% would go to the server. This would keep the prices higher while still allowing the flexibility of competition.
     
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  7. GiantNuker

    GiantNuker

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    Wait, why does the sponges thing even matter, there's like a zillion blocks in every direction in a minecraft world.
     
  8. PandaChristina

    PandaChristina Moderator

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    I actually really like this "server town" idea the more I think about it. I'm going to have to sleep on this idea.
    Also, a sale tax is definitely something to consider. Do you have any numbers in mind?
     
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  9. GiantNuker

    GiantNuker

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    i
    think 10% sales tax
     
  10. Blinksi

    Blinksi

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    I actually wrote it down, but you might have missed it. Here you go:
    For example for every item sold through the chest shop player would get 75% of the profit and the other 25% would go to the server. This would keep the prices higher while still allowing the flexibility of competition.
     
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  11. PandaChristina

    PandaChristina Moderator

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    Oh, whoops. Duh
     
  12. TheShibaDog

    TheShibaDog

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    I really like this idea. This would keep control of the money that is going through the server and at the same time help the economy a lot.
     
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  13. red_stoner62

    red_stoner62 Developer Admin

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    @Blinksi This is one of the best posts so far, I love the responses from everyone and I love the attention to detail, thank you :)

    Server/Staff Town sounds awesome and removes so much of the toxicity from the environment while still allowing players to participate

    As for shops, personally I don't want to get on and have to do math so in my mind the tax thing is out (sorry!).
    However, your point about small, specialized shops really hit home, so how does this sound?
    The smaller your shop, the more you can undercut the base price. So if you have the minimum size shop (30 chests), you can undercut larger shops by a certain amount for your specialized items. If your shop gets popular from selling all the items and you decide to expand the shop, you'll have to raise your prices to the new minimum prices or they'll cease to function

    Thoughts?
     
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  14. Blinksi

    Blinksi

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    @red_stoner62 Thank you for your reply.

    I do like the idea of specialized shops but I think it might become hard to monitor after a while. I can see people building parts of their shops separately and connecting it with portals just to avoid higher prices, I also think it's a lot of work having to rewrite all of your prices once you expand.

    I was actually thinking the shop tax might be like an automated system that just takes away a portion of the earnings. I wasn't expecting anyone to do it manually. Now I can see there being a problem if the item is being sold for let's say 1$ and the system can't split it.
    So this would be my suggestion:
    Instead of shops receiving the sale earning instantly when someone buys something the shop payout would only happen once a day (kind of like taxes used to be collected once a day, except shop owners get money) and the system would just take 25% (this number is just for example) out of the total earned in a day.

    Personally, I'd rather deal with anything but a fixed price that takes away the control of my shop. I view owning a shop as a creative process and I'd probably think twice if I even want one with the current proposal. Part of the fun of shops is going through all the shops and comparing prices and finding that best deal, some shop has cheaper sand other shop has cheaper wood and it makes for a much more community-based experience.

    It's hard to put into words and this reply might be a bit all over the place, but my feelings about this are very strong and I think shops would become way too sterile. Add that with the new GSI option and shops really do become a faceless entity with nothing unique.
     
  15. red_stoner62

    red_stoner62 Developer Admin

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    Ok I see what you're going for, but what happens if they spend all the money and I can't take out the tax at the end of the day?
    The sign rewriting would be automatic, and I can add a utility to change a sign while it's on the wall, so shouldn't be a problem if we go that way.
    Also the building shops in pieces is easy to work around, I already have a system that follows portals that we use for inspections

    Just spitballing, what if we did a thing where we combine the two ideas? The more you undercut the minimum price, the higher the tax is taken out of your earnings, but you could set your prices to whatever you want? I don't want to be unreasonable, the tax could be modest, but to send a bit of a nudge
     
  16. Blinksi

    Blinksi

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    They wouldn't get the money before that, at the end of the day the server deducts 25% and then pays them out the other 75%.

    I mean combining the two would be fine too, I'm pretty much up for anything other than a set minimum price. I still think the tax itself is the most elegant solution since it raises the prices without compromising the actual flexibility and freedom of shops themselves. Sometimes the best solutions are the simplest you know, I'm just going off of how prices are raised in real world situations here.
     
  17. red_stoner62

    red_stoner62 Developer Admin

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    The main thing I'm worried about is diamonds.
    People undercut the price by so much that it becomes so much easier to go buy diamonds than mine them, and then everyone gets top tier stuff and then everyone gets bored and leaves.

    I can't say that's the always the case, but it's absolutely what brought about the minimum price thing, since even with a tax it's still so easy to undercut and have everyone buy from you. And when people buy you out what do you say, as a shop owner?
    Is it "I'd better raise my prices"? It's usually "Well then, I'd better go mine some more diamonds so I can keep my price the same"
     
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  18. Blinksi

    Blinksi

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    Okay I get what you mean, so what I would do in this case is keep the percentage tax for most items and then for a select few items that you think might have a profound effect on the server instead of a percentage tax you could have a fixed tax (so instead of 25% lets say players would have to pay 20$ per item sold to the server no matter what the price is)

    Now you might be asking yourself why would a fixed tax be better than a minimum price. Because unlike a minimum price where everyone would just lower the price of their items to the minimum possible there would still be room for competition since the player would basically still need to make up their own margins on top of the tax unlike with minimum prices where the margins are dictated by the server.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2018
  19. GiantNuker

    GiantNuker

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    i
    see, so no one would ever go and sell diamonds for less thn 21c and even selling at that is rather stupid.
     
  20. Blinksi

    Blinksi

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    Yes, it's basically like this:
    Minimum price for diamonds 40$: every single shop has diamonds at 40$
    Fixed tax for diamonds at 20$: one shop has diamonds for 38$, the other 45$, some other 41$.. you get the point.

    The major difference is you're keeping the market free to decide and be competitive with one another.
     
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